15/10/2007 03:54:40

When I know I've enough interest Mike. Lets face it, I don't fancy €200 coming out of my pocket just for it!

14/10/2007 23:04:26

Sean - only seen your thread now (& I am in the Uk too).

I have to totally agree with Thorsten and I can genuinely say this from 1st hand experience that the attitute of certian togs to be somewhat reluctant to help is a pain in the ass.

Providing support to someone isnt necessary giving away your secrets.

Anyway Sean, we will chat about this in more depth when we get chance to see/speak next.

When is the local agency thing happening??

12/10/2007 11:56:39

I'd done some work that was used as one of the models comp card and was introduced that way, Thorsten.

As to the rest, I'll let you know when it happens! 

12/10/2007 11:52:09

  I agree anyone who has a skill and who refuses to help others in that skill is not very confident in their own achievements and are therefore afraid to show their lack of knowledge or skill by leaving themselves open to questions in open forum.  You can see this in any camera club, there are those who will share their knowledge and skill and those to whom everything is a secret.  In case someone would do better than them.

            &nb sp;  Colin

12/10/2007 11:44:48

SeanMcC wrote: A lot of relatively unskilled and often non technical photographers are really successful due to their business acumen.

Ne'er a truer word spoken!!! That's the one area more than any other aspect that has held me back from making the big move. It really annoys me when I see some so called professionals work and end up saying "I could have done better than that?" to which the classic answer is "Why don't you?" to which I really don't have an answer .

Good luck with your agency model shoot, although I know you don't need it! I've been thinking of going down the local agency route myself for some lifestyle photography. How did you approach the agency and what was their initial response (sorry for going way off topic).

As for seeing the world in black and white, well sometimes it's just easier to make a case without the complications of different shades of grey .

12/10/2007 11:03:29

Would that everything was as black and white as that Thorsten. With your master/apprentice model, it has happened more than once that skills have been lost. On the whole though the apprentice will only pass on skills when he has become the master, and then only to his apprentices. Obviously in return the master gets the time and work of the apprentice.

A lot of relatively unskilled and often non technical photographers are really successful due to their business acumen. There are also some very poor expert photographers. My own business skills are certainly lacking, although I do have a small bit of net profile, due to my Lightroom involvement, but that wasn't by design. 

I'm going to bit the bullet soon and do a day of location stuff with a local agency model to up my portfolio, so that might help. I also of course need to get work from it. That's the key part. Marketing. Anyhow.

 

12/10/2007 10:50:27

We'll have to agree to disagree then . I can think of a number of succesful photographers that give away pretty much all their "secrets" and yet they don't suffer at the hands of the competition. That's largely because true success in the photography business has more to do with marketing, vision, creativity and other "soft skills" than it does with raw technical ability. Just because photographer A can replicate what photographer B does, it doesn't follow that photographer A will be as succesful a photographer B.

Besides, the really succesful photographers are constantly reinventing themselves and their business so that even if they share their success secrets today, by the time the competition adopts these, they will already be behind!

If and when I do turn professional I don't intend relying on keeping so called "secrets" to win business over the competition. I really do think it is more about attitude and self confidence than it is about actual photographic skill.

Another way of looking at this is that if a master craftsman doesn't pass on his skills to those following in his footsteps then it's the craft itself that ultimately suffers.

Perhaps my views are too idealistic and of no value in the real world of competitive business, but I would like to thing that there is some merit in them

- Thorsten.

12/10/2007 10:26:03

It's not an insecurity matter, simply one of  competition. A lot of photographers with a defined style are reluctant to diverge details. Take for example Dave Hill. He's happy to show off movies of the shoots and the finished images, but not the inbetween steps. He has said publicly that he doesn't do much and that it's not too hard, but he never says what! Appropriately enough too, I think. Another example is Dragan, who has a look that most people fail to copy properly..